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Thread: Bolte bridge

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  1. #21
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    Re: Bolte bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by closei View Post
    Very pretty, love those contrasting colours! I'm also curious as to the 'clean' star effect. Is that through post processing or have you some other magic filter on the lens?
    Hi Closei, There was no special post processing for the star effect. I think it comes down to a very sharp lens and 9 blades as William mentioned?

    The image below was also taken from the same lens.

    I rarely use the 24-70mm lens for landscape since I bought the 16-35mm F4L around 18 months ago.


    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #22
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    Re: Bolte bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by closei View Post
    Thanks, yes I was aware that stopped down lenses could give that result but wasn’t aware that odd number blades would double the star points. Do you understand the logic behind this effect?
    Yes I do.

    The star effect (a number of ‘spikes’ starbursts’ ‘flares’ etc) is what happens when the (relatively small) aperture is NOT a perfect circle.

    When the aperture is not (perfectly) circular, then TWO ‘spikes’ ‘starbursts or ‘flares’ are created at Ī90į to the Blade.

    When there is an ODD number of Blades, each evenly spaced there are twice as many VISIBLE spikes each evenly spaced, as there are Blades.

    When there is an EVEN number of Blades there are actually still twice as many spikes created, but sets of two (creating a 'pair') will line up so that the overall effect is perceived as being only the same number of Spikes as is the number of Blades.

    This is simply tested (not proven) with Geometry by drawing any regular, EVEN sided polygon.

    The complete Mathematical Proofs, from first Principles, is longer and a tad more involved: I can't recite it off the top of my head, but the above is the essence of it.

    WW

  3. #23
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    Re: Bolte bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by chz370 View Post
    Hi Closei, There was no special post processing for the star effect. I think it comes down to a very sharp lens and 9 blades as William mentioned?
    Yes, it does, and yes that lens is bloody sharp.

    WW

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    Re: Bolte bridge

    Iím not a mathematician so Iíll accept your version. It makes sense and I remember someone explaining it like that before. (It might have been you).

    Iíll test it out with a couple of lenses the next time Iím out with the camera at night.

    Thanks for that.

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    Re: Bolte bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by chz370 View Post
    Hi Closei, There was no special post processing for the star effect. I think it comes down to a very sharp lens and 9 blades as William mentioned?

    The image below was also taken from the same lens.

    I rarely use the 24-70mm lens for landscape since I bought the 16-35mm F4L around 18 months ago.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Love it!

  6. #26
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    Re: Bolte bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by William W View Post
    Thanks.
    I have not seen starbursts made with that lens.
    Really excellent.
    I use LR and PS in a similar two stage Post Processing - I am certain I can appreciate what you did.

    I have a peculiarity for Starburst, and I tend to choose lenses for that task: the main criterion being an even number of aperture blades. One favourite lens for this is my EF 50 F/1.4. My general experience is that zoom lenses render Starbursts poorly (less defined) by contrast to Prime Lenses and this is especially so if the Zoom Lens has an odd number of Aperture Blades.

    (Comment below is also referring to the question by closei)

    A Starburst will generally be made from a pinpoint light source in the scene when the overall palette is dark. Starbursts are an attraction, if not a passion for Landscape Photographers who specialize or like in Night Time Shooting. I like shooting outdoor Architecture, at night. Starbursts can be used to accent the scene.

    Lenses with an EVEN number of blades will render that number of star points; and Lenses with an ODD number of Blades will render double that amount of Star Points.

    As I mentioned, Prime Lenses are generally better for quality Starbusrts. Typically one needs to stop down to about F/11 or F/16. There are other Image Quality considerations when working around F/16, or smaller.

    These (and others) are the many reasons why I am interested that the 24 to 70 2.8 MkII was used. Firstly 18 is a very large number of points (the lens has 9 Blades, but already knew that the lens used must have had 9 Blades, so I was very curious as to which lens it was) and secondly each point is so very clear.

    Typically this clarity is an unusual result for a Zoom Lens, especially more unusual when it is used at its widest zoom setting: and it was obvious that the Lens was in the 16mm to 30mm Focal Length Range - additionally the users of Prime Lenses are few and far between, so it was a good assumption to bet a Mars Bar that a Zoom Lens would have been used . . .

    I have used this 24 to 70 MkII lens and I was very impressed with it: but I chose to buy the (original) 24 to 70 F/2.8L instead, the main reason being that the (original) lens zooms in and out THROUGH the lens hood, creating the most effective Lens Hood coverage: I donít know of any other zoom lens with this design and it is very useful for the type of work for which I use my 24 to 70/2.8 Ė which is mainly Available Light Portraiture, often shooting into the sun and not with it.
    You are right again regarding odd and even blades! The following 2 images clearly illustrated your excellent technical expertise.

    24-70mm F2.8L II
    70mm | 8s | F14 | ISO 100
    Click image for larger version. 

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    70-200mm F2.8L IS II
    145mm | 8s | F13 | ISO 100
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I like the framing of the second image Ė it places the Bridge more as an item IN THE SCENE rather the the ITEM OF THE SCENE. In the second image the foreground Ďmess and dirtí is not distracting.

    I think that the COMPOSITION of the first image has much more PUNCH.

    WW
    Agree that the second image is of a typical landscape photo and more pleasing but I prefer the first one for it intended distortion for a more interesting view.

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    Re: Bolte bridge

    On the topic of Starbursts only and number of bursts etc ... :

    As a comparison - not an overall good comparison for other matters, because this was shot at ISO1600 or ISO3200 as the Camera was hand-held: but it is a comparison none the less.

    Note that there is a small Starburst from the specular reflection in the water - it is at top left of Grid #9. I have always thought that one is kind of cute.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "Laying Pipes"
    EF 50 1.4, probably on an EOS 5D.
    Image © AJ Group Pty Ltd Aust 1996~2019 WMW 1965~1996

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    Re: Bolte bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by chz370 View Post
    You are right again regarding odd and even blades! The following 2 images clearly illustrated your excellent technical expertise.
    Thanks for the kind comment.

    While you were posting those two examples, I found the first image I could, using the 50/1.4 - to show the effect of 8 Blades. Not interested in changing the point of focus of the thread to my image Ė just posted my image as an example of what we are discussing.


    Quote Originally Posted by closei View Post
    . . . It makes sense and I remember someone explaining it like that before. (It might have been you). Iíll test it out with a couple of lenses the next time Iím out with the camera at night. Thanks for that.
    You're both very welcome. The explanations were well received. It could have been me, here or somewhere else: I have explained that phenomenon a few times.

    ***

    Well thatís been a fun time - we have discussed a lot of stuff and viewed some wonderful images and I for one very much enjoyed it.

    WW

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    Re: Bolte bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by William W View Post
    Thanks for the kind comment.

    While you were posting those two examples, I found the first image I could, using the 50/1.4 - to show the effect of 8 Blades. Not interested in changing the point of focus of the thread to my image – just posted my image as an example of what we are discussing.




    You're both very welcome. The explanations were well received. It could have been me, here or somewhere else: I have explained that phenomenon a few times.

    ***

    Well that’s been a fun time - we have discussed a lot of stuff and viewed some wonderful images and I for one very much enjoyed it.

    WW
    Nice image!

    My fastest lenses are F2.8 (all zoom). I have been thinking of getting a faster prime lens but not sure what focal length. Apart from landscape, I quite enjoy portrait photography. Probably a 35, 85 or 135mm with F1.4?

    I also enjoyed this level of critique and technical discussions.

    Thanks again William and Closei for sharing your thoughts!

  10. #30
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    Re: Bolte bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by chz370 View Post
    This image was made when I ran a 1 on 1 workshop a couple of years ago.
    Cool shot, Chanh! The bridge looks so amazing with the lights! I love this pic!

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    Re: Bolte bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachael Alice View Post
    Cool shot, Chanh! The bridge looks so amazing with the lights! I love this pic!
    Thanks a lot for your feedback Rachael!

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    Re: Bolte bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by closei View Post
    I’m not a mathematician so I’ll accept your version. It makes sense and I remember someone explaining it like that before. (It might have been you).

    I’ll test it out with a couple of lenses the next time I’m out with the camera at night.

    Thanks for that.
    It doesn't have to be night, the sun will do this in a shot as well and can be used to great effect if done in the right setting with the right composition where the sun/star doesn't detract from the over all. I've taken a great shot (if I do say so myself?) using a tripod of tree taken from under it's huge canopy which was back-lit by the sun. The glimpses of sun light that are coming through appear as tiny little stars. If I can find it I'll post it here.

    Cheers Nate

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