Questions on snow photography

[DougT]

I have an opportunity to spend a few months in a Canadian winter at the end of the year so I am going to have lots of snow photos to take. I have been told to over expose by 1 to 2 stops to prevent the camera from making the snow look grey as digital cameras automatically apply about 18% grey to white.
I use a Nikon D70 mostly in RAW and with a small amount of snow experience I have I didn't see any grey in the pics I took. I would have thought if you over expose the snow to whiten it any detail or texture is going to be blown out.

I thought a better way would be to make a preset white balance of snow on a bright sunny day and then use this.

Questions:
Any comments on this?
What is the best way to shoot a snow scene?

Doug.

[Mike]

Just a quick answer I'm sure others will elaborate

White Balance is different to exposure (it is to do with colout temperature), certainly set your white balance as snow will appear often appear blue

Exposure yes your camera will normally under expose a very white scene as it perceives it as an average scene which is too bright so yes you should overexpose to what the inbuilt reflective metering is indicating

Ilf you use an a seperate incident meter that will be an accurate exposure

Some cameras have a snow setting if your not sure use this

[Helen]

Thankyou for that interesting piece of information. Certainly will help when we head to NZ in September, which still should have a good covering of snow on the South Island. :)

[Analog6]

As the meters in DSLRs register REFLECTED light rather than the light falling on the subject, you will either need to (a) adjust exposures accodringly (probably downwards) or (b) invest in a light meter and practise before the trip.

And don't forget the fundamental difference in digital and film photography if reading older articles re light meters, with film / transparency you expose for shadows, with digital expose for highlights.

This is because with film you can 'tease' more from the highlight end at the development stage, especially for print film, but with digital, what you get is IT, no new details will ever be extracted. You are just tweaking. So if the highlights are blown out, they stay blown out. You can darken them, but you can never recover lost detail.

[Tiberius]

You are right that you will need to over-expose the snow.

Cameras assume that the photograph has an average tone of about 18% grey. So, they adjust the exposure settings (shutter speed and aperture) so that the tone of the whole photo is that midtone grey. However, this will make snow look 18% grey, giving it a dirty look. To get the nice crisp white, you need to make the snow brighter - over-expose. You can easily do this by using exposure compensation. Most cameras have the ability to do this, even compact cameras.

[Tiberius]

You are right that you will need to over-expose the snow.

Cameras assume that the photograph has an average tone of about 18% grey. So, they adjust the exposure settings (shutter speed and aperture) so that the tone of the whole photo is that midtone grey. However, this will make snow look 18% grey, giving it a dirty look. To get the nice crisp white, you need to make the snow brighter - over-expose. You can easily do this by using exposure compensation. Most cameras have the ability to do this, even compact cameras.

[DougT]

Thank you All for your feed back. After posting the original question I contacted a friend in Canada who referred me to this link.

http://www.digicamhelp.com/learn/nature/snow.php#

The author in this article states that over exposing snow as opposed to using white balance correction and minus EV is a very debatable question. His method is white balance and minus EV with a good argument to use this method. That is you don't blow out detail or texture and a number of other reasons I don't want to re-write the article here.

I cannot say one way or the other as I don't know however my last trip to Canada and Alaska in 2006 I didn't have any difficulty with grey snow except in cloudy, low light conditions. If the sun was out the snow was white.

I suppose the bottom line is try both and see what makes you happy.

A few points for Helen.

When you are in snow don't be tempted to use a polarising filter. I did and the result was awful. My Canadian friends said polarisers are not widely used as the sun in the higher latitudes is at a much lower angle than the sub tropics/tropics. When they do use them they use a warm polariser ie. Moose Filter and they are over $200.

I was in NZ in 2004 and as in Canada the dark granite rock tends to make for dark photos so watch your exposures and if it is very cold keep your camera battery warm they don't work well in freezing conditions. If you take your camera out of a warm room straight into the cold air you run the risk of condensation forming in the camera. Keep the camera in a cool place so it doesn't see a large temperature change. This may not be a problem in September but just be aware it could happen. It will be a very real problem for me when I go to Canada in December so every precaution will be taken.

Doug.

[Mike]

Thank you All for your feed back. After posting the original question I contacted a friend in Canada who referred me to this link.

http://www.digicamhelp.com/learn/nature/snow.php#

...The author in this article states that over exposing snow as opposed to using white balance correction and minus EV is a very debatable question. His method is white balance and minus EV with a good argument to use this method. ...
Doug.
isn't minus EV(Exposure Value)the same as exposure adjustment?

[nigel]

isn't minus EV(Exposure Value)the same as exposure adjustment?

Yes!
(it should be Exposure compensation Value, Exposure Value is old style light meter readings.)

The difference is the camera automaticly does it for you (until you turn it off), when using the EV adjustment.



Doug, all light meters are stupid!!!

They see all light in 18% grey!
You point it at a white cat, the light meter thinks it's grey.
You point it at a black cat, the light meter thinks it's grey.

They are designed to give an average exposure, in average conditions.

There are two types of light meters, reflected, and incident.
Reflected is what you will find in your camera, it reads the light reflected off you subjects.
An incident meter reads the light falling on the meter.

Both are stupid in the fact they only see 18% grey.
But it is the subject that will give different readings from both meters.

With the incident meter, the light falling on the black cat is the same as the light falling on the white cat, so the exposure is the same.
The camera meter (reflected) sees the light from the white cat and thinks it is grey so exposes for grey, the same thing happens with the black cat.

You don't need to go out and purchase an incident meter, but as long as you know how the camera meter will react in a situation, then you'll have it covered.

More on meters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_meter
http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Guide-to-using-a-hand-held-light-meter

You can use a grey card to get your reflected meter working like an incident meter (see you local photo store).

One easy way is to look around your composed picture, and find a mid tone (18% grey), meter off this and you'll be very close.
Spot meters are great for this.

If you have dark rocks, and snow, you can even count the number of f stops between the exposure for the snow and the exposure for the rocks, half this number and go down from the snow (high light) reading.
This will give you, your own exposure for that scene.

You have the best tool (a digital camera) to try before you go on your trip, shoot white objects and black objects, you'll soon find a system that works for you.

[Analog6]

One type of filter that might be useful is a 'tobacco' filter - I'd go for a pale one. I have a graduated one and it 'brightens' dull scenes. Mine is one a Cokin. A cheap one might be worth a try.

[Helen]

Thankyou Doug and for the link also. Should be a good experience. :)

[Nicholas N]

All you will need for great snow shots is a ND filter. I just came back from Thredbo and it corrected all the crappy snow shots you see most people come back with.

[nigel]

All you will need for great snow shots is a ND filter. I just came back from Thredbo and it corrected all the crappy snow shots you see most people come back with.

An ND filter is not a correcting filter.

It limits light from reaching the camera, often in one, two, or three stops.
It is just like a pair of sunglasses (non polarised), or like car window tinting.
The exposure must be increased when using ND filters, otherwise you've got under exposed pics.
If you metered through the ND filter then you have also limited the light reaching the meter, so you have only extended your exposure time?!? :confused:

Your view finder will be darker for aiming the camera when using the ND filter as well.

[Nicholas N]

Whatever the issue the shots came out great......

..... and thats all that matters :)