2009 Winter Weddings Photography Special

[gemma-clarke]

Hi everyone

I have had a lot of interest from pics i shared a while ago on this forum and I thank you for your support. I am holding a special for anyone who wants a professional photographer for their wedding in June or July this year. My special can be found here: www.gemma-clarke.com/blog

I also have a Facebook page for my photography if you are interested - http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Gemma-Clarke-Photography/51689467082

I just love this craft of making people happy and being artistic!

I am based in Sydney but will travel (at an additional cost).

Thanks again,

Gemma

[DG77]

8 hours coverage and high res. disk for only $990 ??

[littlealbert]

Great FB page! I just became a fan :D

Good special you have going there..... seems a bit cheap though? A lot of hard work on your part and giving a hi-res disk you are saying goodbye to extra earnings through prints etc...!
But I guess in the winter season weddings are not on so often so you do need to be competitive to get the business!

[DG77]

Great FB page! I just became a fan :D

Good special you have going there..... seems a bit cheap though? A lot of hard work on your part and giving a hi-res disk you are saying goodbye to extra earnings through prints etc...!

I'll say.
Maybe you'd be better off giving them several hundred dollars credit towards something (prints, albums, frames e.t.c.) included in the price... that way they still have to spend extra money to make use of the credit.
Like littlealbert said once you include the hi res disk you have no chance of upselling, if you are going to make the disk available (which I personally have always been dead against) at least charge extra for it.

$900 + GST is not a lot of money for a day's worth of shooting, and then probably another day of getting the images ready for presentation, not to mention time spent with pre-consultations, scoping locations e.t.c.
I'm not familiar with the demographic of your client base, but by briefly looking at some of your work I reckon you should be charging a lot more.

[gemma-clarke]

Yep, I know all this guys, it is going to be a lot of work for little money.

This is a promotional blitz to get my name more out there as I am thinking of going full-time on this - I already work full-time hours on it but I am thinking of focusing just on the business.

I have found that I am still able to sell prints and albums even with people who originally come to me only for coverage plus disk...

And thanks for becoming my fan :)

~ Gemma

[Charismatic]

You don't become well known from being cheap - You become well known for having a quality product.

Unless you want to become well known for being the cheaper alternative
(And when I think "Cheaper alternative", I automatically think "Cheaper Product").

Goodluck either way though!

[DG77]

Yep, I know all this guys, it is going to be a lot of work for little money.

This is a promotional blitz to get my name more out there as I am thinking of going full-time on this - I already work full-time hours on it but I am thinking of focusing just on the business.

I have found that I am still able to sell prints and albums even with people who originally come to me only for coverage plus disk...

And thanks for becoming my fan :)

~ Gemma

Maybe you should have put the RRP on the flyer, that way people at least know what the normal price is, and when they hopefully tell their friends about what a good job you did they won't be expecting the same bargain basement price.
You'll need to do a lot of $900 weddings to make a living out of it. (remember swanny keeps $90 of your fee)
Most businesses need to turn over $150k p.a just to cover overheads, at $900 you'll need to do 167 weddings a year (3 a week), before you make a dollar.

Its a bit unrealistic to expect to be able to do 3 weddings per week.

If you were to charge 4k per wedding you'd only have to do 38 a year to start making money, at 5k only 30.

Do you see where I'm going with this ?
The only people making decent money out of wedding photography are the ones whoose prices start at about 5k. I charge $3500 and know there is no money in it for the work involved.

I'd probably spend 60 hours total on an average wedding, which roughly equates to a pathetic $58 per hour, factor in my lab costs and it's even less.

If you want to go full time with your photography you'll need to find income from other areas and not just rely on weddings, unless you think you're good enough to get 10k per gig.... Plenty of QLD photographers do, and they're doing really well.

[Photogenic]

I agree with the above. If you start out really cheap you will find it harder to raise your prices. You could have the RRP on the flyer so they know it is a cheaper rate.

Remember just because you are working from home (I assume you are from your comments) you still have overheads - insurance, equipment, further education, computer programs, advertising, business cards etc etc etc.

And remember that wedding photography isn't just about the wedding day - you have the pre wedding interviews - at least one to get the sale and at least one on location to check out venues, a pre wedding shoot if you offer it, travel to and from the venue, not to mention post processing and an album viewing. That is a lot of work for such a small amount of money.

I know it is easy to fall into the trap of offering a lower price in order to get your name out there but when you look at all the work you have to do you find you are ripping yourself off. I have been there and done that.

And you do need to do a lot of weddings to be able to make a go of it full time if you are going to charge such a small amount and you will probably find you burn yourself out very quickly.

Just a couple of things I have learned along the way, it is easy to forget about the small expenses - I think go for it if it is what you are passionate about but just don't rip yourself off in the process.

Linda

[bloo35]

Here's a different viewpoint from someone not wishing to turn professional and full time. I charge $1000 for a 4hr shoot and handover a full high res disk with selected shots (I just cut all the rubbish). I do minimal PP and so for about 6hrs work I get $1k cash. I'll never be famous but I have almost no overheads as I have a computer and camera anyway. It is all done through referals so there is no advertising and clients check out my work by email. If they are after a high end product I am the first to refer to professionals. 10-15 weddings a year is a nice amount of cash.

As I said this is a different veiwpoint but for some extra cash for an amatuer, it works.

Cheers

[gemma-clarke]

I think a lot of people have missed the point of my flyer..this is just for June and July this year and it is a SPECIAL as I have no bookings. I want to build up my referral base.

I like the point that Photogenic put down about putting the RRP on the flyer - thanks for that...I will adjust the flyer!

Also, I have been in business for two years now..I know the costs, the overheads etc Working during June and July is better than not working I think and it will lead to future business. It is a part of my business plan and it was planned...if I had little or no bookings in the winter months then I would offer a special.

I thank you for your feedback but I don't believe I will revert to becoming known as the cheap photographer just because of a special I am running. I know that my clients are very happy with the quality of my work and they will refer me not because of my costs but because of my work and who I am as a person.

[DG77]

I just can't understand why anyone would want to hand over a high res disk for $1000 or less.
Gemma would be one of the few people still able to sell prints after handing over a high res. disk. Why on earth would anyone want to spend any more money when they can take the cheapest package on offer, (say $1000, or $400 in the case of brooke+3) get the disk and do all the printing, albums, wall print e.t.c. themselves.

The point I was trying to make is that if you're soley relying on weddings for cashflow $1000 a week (or even $2000 if you do two in a week) is not enough money to sustain a business.
It's a pretty tough ask for any photographer to sustain a business model based on weddings alone, especially in recent years when anyone can buy a digital camera and claim to be a professional photographer and charge a fraction of what people have traditionally paid. (and give away a disk for good measure)

[habro]

I want to build up my referral base

I think as long as you have a plan then good on you. Only you know your business and where you want to go with it and what you want to do to get there. I can totally see other people's points on here... but go for it & good luck I say. I would love to be doing photography as a career, couldn't think of anything better.

[Charismatic]

I just can't understand why anyone would want to hand over a high res disk for $1000 or less.
Gemma would be one of the few people still able to sell prints after handing over a high res. disk. Why on earth would anyone want to spend any more money when they can take the cheapest package on offer, (say $1000, or $400 in the case of brooke+3) get the disk and do all the printing, albums, wall print e.t.c. themselves.

The point I was trying to make is that if you're soley relying on weddings for cashflow $1000 a week (or even $2000 if you do two in a week) is not enough money to sustain a business.
It's a pretty tough ask for any photographer to sustain a business model based on weddings alone, especially in recent years when anyone can buy a digital camera and claim to be a professional photographer and charge a fraction of what people have traditionally paid. (and give away a disk for good measure)

Times have changed. I wasn't there in the film days or when handing out negatives or digital negatives was considered sacraligious at any price - But in this day and age, people aren't stupid anymore.

Reprint value for a 4x6 from a Photographer? $6.00 and upwards.

Photo Rabbit (With EXACT same quality prints) 4x6 - $0.29cents

People would prefer to get a CD, that is why so many photographers, myself included, give them out now, some do it at a price, some do it as incentive - Not only this, but I'd prefer it. I give out a disclaimer with all my CD's though that tells people never to print the photos from a home computer, it's right there on the CD too - But instead, I tell them to take it into a professional lab, or Photo Rabbit, something of the sort where you you at least know the prints will come out with correct ratios and colors.

Is that lazy? Sure. But I'd rather do that, then take a dozen orders from a dozen relatives and have to get them printed, send them off, make sure cash/cheques have cleared, yada yada yada -- Sure, may make me a little extra then what giving the CD out would have, but it's chewing up time, and time is worth more to me.

[DG77]

People would prefer to get a CD, that is why so many photographers, myself included, give them out now, some do it at a price, some do it as incentive - Not only this, but I'd prefer it. I give out a disclaimer with all my CD's though that tells people never to print the photos from a home computer, it's right there on the CD too - But instead, I tell them to take it into a professional lab, or Photo Rabbit, something of the sort where you you at least know the prints will come out with correct ratios and colors.

Is that lazy? Sure. But I'd rather do that, then take a dozen orders from a dozen relatives and have to get them printed, send them off, make sure cash/cheques have cleared, yada yada yada -- Sure, may make me a little extra then what giving the CD out would have, but it's chewing up time, and time is worth more to me.

Who wouldn't prefer something for free ?
All the disclaimers in the world won't stop someone from messing with your files and printing them out for the world to see.
It only takes one dodgy edit by a client to undo years of hard work building a good reputation.



Maybe you need some better systems, we ftp all our files to our lab and pick up all our printed goods several times a week, and on the return trip we drop off any prints to our framers that need framing/mounting/laminating.

Seems a small price to pay for the extra income it provides, and when possible I have one of my juniors do it so it's hardly an expensive excercise.

All our orders are paid for at the viewing, 99% are by credit card which is approved on the spot and the money ends up in our account generally within 24 hours of the sale.

What's so hard about that ?

Occasionally clients request high res. files in which case we charge $110 each for private domestic use, $500 each for commercial use.
Pretty cheap IMO for the risk that it entails to my reputation.
Sure I too could give them away for free, but why would I when my clients are willing to pay for them ?
I do run a business afterall, I'm not a charity.
Goodwill will only get you so far in life.

[trigger]

Love this thread. Getting alot of things i wanted to ask as weel.

I am about to go into the events / weddings side of things and getting my name and services out there soon. Low price will be inverse to my reputation out there. So i hope the trend is exponential :)

[Charismatic]

All the disclaimers in the world won't stop someone from messing with your files and printing them out for the world to see.

I don't see the big deal in this, really - I mean sure, messed with photos can look shocking. But I think most people these days are smart enough not to go off what someone printed at home vs. lab prints.

I have galleries on my website, that's enough for me to show the originals are better quality.


Maybe you need some better systems, we ftp all our files to our lab and pick up all our printed goods several times a week, and on the return trip we drop off any prints to our framers that need framing/mounting/laminating.

I did that in the beginning - But still, it takes time, effort and as I said, I'd rather the time spared. It's easier to stick everything on a disc, hand it over at a nice $$$ and move on to the next - I don't have to worry about Auntie Mary and Uncle Joe a few months down the track who want 5 shots from the wedding.


All our orders are paid for at the viewing, 99% are by credit card which is approved on the spot and the money ends up in our account generally within 24 hours of the sale.

What's so hard about that ?

You drive to or make appointments per person who attended the wedding who want a few shots? Sounds like it would be a time waster to me just for a few hundred bucks.


Occasionally clients request high res. files in which case we charge $110 each for private domestic use, $500 each for commercial use.

That is cheap.

[Photogenic]

Charismatic, generally you have in your contract that for family orders they are to be done through the client and all orders have to be received before you print any of the photos - generally you also have a timeframe re pricing of the prints and if they pay outside the contracted price you charge them the current sale price - if it has gone up from the originally quoted price so be it.

I actually have an online ordering system for my photos - I provide relatives with the link and password and they can order through there - then have one viewing with the couple only.

I don't find FTP hard and if I am really having trouble driving the 10 minutes to my lab to pick up the photos then I can have them couriered to me for minimal charge.

Regarding the quality - get a print from a professional lab (lustre) and a print from say rabbit photo (matte) and see if you find the one from Rabbit Photo feels sticky. That is just one of the differences I have noticed between a print from a professional lab and one from a non professional lab.

And the messed with photos are the ones that are going to be seen by clients friends and family and when they asked who did their photos they will say "insert name of photographer here" but forget to mention they stuffed around in photoshop before they printed it.

Linda

[Charismatic]

Regarding the quality - get a print from a professional lab (lustre) and a print from say rabbit photo (matte) and see if you find the one from Rabbit Photo feels sticky. That is just one of the differences I have noticed between a print from a professional lab and one from a non professional lab.

You know Photo Rabbit prints Lustre too, right?


Charismatic, generally you have in your contract that for family orders they are to be done through the client and all orders have to be received before you print any of the photos - generally you also have a timeframe re pricing of the prints and if they pay outside the contracted price you charge them the current sale price - if it has gone up from the originally quoted price so be it.

I actually have an online ordering system for my photos - I provide relatives with the link and password and they can order through there - then have one viewing with the couple only.

I don't find FTP hard and if I am really having trouble driving the 10 minutes to my lab to pick up the photos then I can have them couriered to me for minimal charge.

That would definitely weed out the problem of late prints, but still, it's time for me regardless lol.

[Photogenic]

Hi Charismatic

I have only used Rabbit Photo I think once to get a sample print done when I wanted to see what a design looked like. Didn't know they have lustre as I don't use them.

Personally it is cheaper for me to get my prints done at the professional lab so I go there.

I guess everyone does what they feel is right for them, if giving them the disc is right for your workflow and timeframes then do that - these have only been suggestions of why you would do it a different way and by no means what you have to do.

Linda

[Charismatic]

^ Yeah I know, totally understandable, and I appreciate the outside perspective too.

And FYI, a lot of public labs these days offer wholesale prices to people in business -- I know a few places up here that do, Harvey Norman of all places (Shock horror) do too. I was getting some random snaps done just for home use and HN's was closest and yeah, cashier asked if I was a pro', showed her a business card, got a real nice discount.

Weird, but yeah, a lot of places do it now supposedly.